by Tori Potenza, Staff Writer

Kill Your Lover is about to be released in select theaters and nationwide on digital platforms and VOD on June 7th. The film follows Dakota (Paige Gilmour) and Axel (Shane Quigley-Murphy). A couple who have been together for awhile, Dakota begins to realize that their relationship has gone on way past its expiration date. While she takes on the initiative to try and end things, Axel refuses to let go. At the same time he begins to exhibit some worrisome health issues including the appearance of black veins all over his body. While the two come to a head it becomes clear that the toxicity of their relationship has manifested into something far more monstrous and terrifying than either of them would expect. 

Back in October I was lucky enough to see Kill Your Lover premiere on the opening night of Brooklyn Horror Fest. The movie’s punk rock energy set the perfect tone for the week-long festivities. I was even more lucky to get the opportunity to sit down with directors Alix Austin and Keir Siewert to discuss their feature debut at a bakery around the corner from the theater. As we enjoyed some sweets and hot beverages we discussed their inspiration for the film, their approach to filmmaking, and what it was like working on a horrific break up tale as a couple. 

Tori Potenza (TP): Your film leans into a lot of body horror elements. I am curious about what drew you to the sub genre for this project? Is it something you've focused on in other projects?

Alix  Austin (AA): In the past we always said “we do body horror”, but we also realized that we actually make monster movies. But body horror has always been a part of it. It’s human horror. I love to reference things like Black Swan, where she peels the skin off of her finger; stuff that really gets under your skin. 

But I think different movies have different functions. I mentioned in the Q & A at the Brooklyn Horror Film Festival screening that we’re drawn to this idea of metamorphosis and being able to express what we are feeling inside. And sometimes we wish that people could see what we are going through without having to express it. So if you actually had black veins all over you, another person might go “hmm I think something might be wrong” you know?

Keir Siewert (KS): I think that is it, that idea. We always viewed the idea of the disease, the thing that is poisoning them, is the relationship itself. And in many ways we have always said that Dakota is the protagonist, or ostensibly the more sympathetic one. Largely because she is the one that sees the relationship needs to end. She is no less involved, she just sees that this needs to end so that’s why we follow her story. 

AA:. Neither one of the characters themselves is a monster. It's the relationship. We realized during development that it was getting too weighted on Axel being the bad guy and I was like, we need to make Dakota more of a dick and less of a victim! Because, I am not a huge fan of this puritanical idea that women can’t do any evil. I think it is more interesting from a human expression point of view, to have them both duking it out. And I also love that she gets to be a part of the fun in the fight at the end. They're both poisoned by the end so they are both giving into it. 

TP: And it is so interesting that you are directing this break up movie, as a couple. How did you work together to balance those elements and figuring out how these characters are represented in the movie? 

KS:  We looked to find a way to personalize the characters and make them feel lived in and real. I think ultimately, there is probably a little bit of both of them in us, and also a lot of inspiration from people we know. What I would say about these two characters, is that they are ostensibly two people who are in love with the concept of the other. Dakota, who is more alternative and wild, is looking for something more stable. She sees him as someone who can put her life in order, and for Axel it is the other way around. Dakota can bring more excitement and vitality into his life. 

AA: Both of them have yearnings to be more like the other person, like they are at war with themselves. They are both trying to capture what the other person has, but ultimately they aren’t able to let it in, or at least not enough to grow together. I feel like you could have that same relationship but if it was at a different time in their lives then maybe it could have worked out, but in this instance they are just incompatible. 

TP: Those ideas around change and metamorphosis have been coming up for me a lot personally, I used to find that scary but as I get older I find something kind of freeing about the idea that things are always in flux. So with that theme of metamorphosis was there some sort of idea or thesis you were trying to distill with that concept in your film?

AA: Well I think with Dakota in particular, she has more of an arc than Axel does. Because you see where she was originally with the flashbacks to her after her band just broke up, then during her relationship with Axel, to where she is now. So by the end she is getting back to herself, for better or worse. And it’s not like she is saying it is going to be easy, and she is obviously scared of it, but ultimately she knows it is the right thing to do. Change is hard. But I am similar to you in that way, we only have one shot at this and life is going to come at you anyway, so you might as well rise up and meet it.

KS: And on a very basic level we took a lot of inspiration from (David Cronenberg’s) The Fly. Because it really is about transforming. When we were initially coming up with the idea for the movie we were like “it’s Blue Valentine meets The Fly”. There are the non linear relationship elements of Blue Valentine with this decaying relationship and seeing the physical reaction. The Fly was very formative for me as a teenager because that was one of the first gorey crazy horror movies that I watched but I was also like “oh the characters and the story are really compelling”. So we felt we really had to make the drama between our two characters compelling in some way. 

TP: Growing up I was scared to watch The Fly because all I heard about it was that it is bloody and gross. I think body horror gets a bad rap for that, so we don’t usually talk about the compelling drama that makes it so good. What was it like for you to take on body horror and explore these very human elements through the violence?

AA: What I realized was that my understanding of what horror is in my teens, was very basic. Because I lived in Switzerland, it felt like we would only get like three mainstream movies a month at the cinema. So all I was seeing was Scream sequels and Scary Movie and jump scare based stuff. And I have never been a fan of cheap jump scares. So I thought, “oh that’s all horror is”. But I was into all of those “thrillers” that were painted as thrillers, but were actually horror movies. I think “elevated horror” has replaced “thrillers” more recently. Because of that, those elements of body horror and transformation didn’t seem like horror to me, but all of the art I was creating back then was dealing with transformation and metamorphosis. It felt like quite a natural progression from “Caterpillar to Butterfly” before morphing into more violent territory with phoenixes burning up into ash. And now I’ve arrived at leeches bursting out of people’s skin (from my short film Sucker) and violence exploding all over the place. 

KS: It is interesting because I love romantic comedies, and a lot of them are about metamorphosis. Like Never Been Kissed, My Fair Lady, all of these are about a woman becoming a different version of herself and I think you can take that into the horror realm with something like Ginger Snaps. I think there is this interesting notion that these human beings romanticize and are fascinated, yet terrified of this notion of being transformed by forces beyond themselves. 

But one of the things that I think is very compelling about body horror is the physical. I am less interested in things like ghosts and exorcisms and spooky stuff, because I don’t really relate to them. But I can relate to the fear of being transformed. Like I am going to get old and die, that will literally happen to me!

AA: Yeah I like it when things are grounded in some form of reality, even when it gets more fantastical. It is a heightened version of reality, allowing us to process things before they happen.

TP: Would you ever want to direct a romantic comedy?

KS: Oh absolutely I would, Alix probably wouldn’t. I think we would have to split up the team to do it. Actually weirdly, I did write a Thanksgiving set horror film, that is basically a horror romantic comedy. It is about a crazy conspiracy theorist who is the downstairs neighbor of a couple who have invited their family for Thanksgiving. But it is very much about their relationship, in a very different way to Axel and Dakota. They are a loving couple who are going through some issues, and the supercharged situation they’re in enables them to work as a team when push comes to shove . 

TP: I also wanted to ask about something the cast mentioned the other night.  They were talking about what a great time they had on set. So I wanted to know how you both go about creating a warm and collaborative environment, while also exploring a lot of hard subject material?

AA: We were aware that we were not going to be able to get them (the leads Paige Gilmour and Shane Quigley-Murphy) together very often for rehearsals, because Shane lives in Ireland. Keir made these really elaborate decks for both of them. Essentially giving them mood boards, breakdowns, movies, and a playlist on Spotify to engage with. So from that perspective I like to think that they were taken care of and taken seriously. Not just “know your lines, stand on the mark, say the thing”. 

In the July rehearsal we got them both over at the same time, Shane was doing makeup tests and we were doing a band photoshoot for Dakota’s photo wall, which were also very elaborate. The next day we did a read through rehearsal but more importantly than that we all went out for drinks and afterwards we left the two of them alone just to have a coffee and a chat. Keir and I have had experiences before where we found it was really important to just allow co-stars to sit down with each other. That way we can establish who we are as people outside of the project. It helps solidify their working relationship. 

KS: You can help people develop a short hand with each other. If you are a director and the actors only interact with you there, everything will sort of flow towards you. As opposed to saying, you guys need some time, just the two of you, where you can develop some kind of rapport and that allows them to feel more comfortable on the day. It helps them feel like they have each others backs, especially if you are doing intense work like this film was. It hopefully helps develop the feeling that you can trust the other person. 

AA: They really became a team, it made me so happy when they told us they were doing zoom meetings and reading their lines together separately. Something that really helped was, originally we were planning to shoot 18 days continuously but then we split it into two blocks. So we did the romantic bits first in the first 4 days and then we took a 3 month break before coming back to do all the horror stuff. It was complicated to figure out if we got all the transition shots to sort of blend the past and the present, but that also really allowed them to get to know each other and the crew. 

We edited together the footage from the flashback scenes and showed it to the actors which I think gave them an even greater confidence in their performances for when they came back 3 months later. 

KS: A really nice thing too was, originally the fight sequence was going to be cut with them each giving one line and then cutting back. But then we decided we didn’t want to just give them one line. So we said to them, you can just improvise fights, and it started to work really well. They got very into it, so we started running two cameras at a time, just getting a lot of content together. 

People get this idea that when they do a film it has to be all scripted or all improvised. But in the film some bits are word for word the script and others are entirely made up in the moment. It made the actors feel more invested in their character. 

AA: I think they started to feel like they had some ownership of the movie too, which is great. 

TP: One thing I really enjoyed too were your ending credits which highlighted all of the people that worked on the movie. 

KS: Well in Alfie, that movie from the 60s with Michael Cane, they had a credit sequence where you can see portraits of all of the crew who were a part of it. Which I thought was super cool, because oftentimes the actors personify the film and the directors get to go around interviewing, so there are so many people that don’t get to be highlighted.  

AA: We had the final say on everything in the film, including the credits, because we produced it as well, which we know we probably won’t have in the same way again in the future. So we were like, “you know what, we are going to do this our way.” So we decided the credits should have the same punk rock energy as the film. 

TP: I know we have talked about some of the thematic influences you had for the movie, but were there other aesthetics from movies or filmmakers that you pulled from?

KS: Weirdly one of the ones you wouldn’t expect is Tony Scott. The thing I like about Tony Scott is he kind of made art films on a massive scale with mainstream subject matter, because they are so experimental. The flashback scenes especially are heavily inspired stylistically by Tony Scott. 

I also think in terms of indie people getting stuff done. Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead are inspiring to us; Spring was a big influence. The idea that you can take this serious theme and put a bunch of different genre ideas on top of it. Possession and Society spring to mind as well. 

TP: It’s interesting because it took me a minute to realize that there were flashbacks because the transitions were so subtle. What was the decision making process behind making them more subtle as opposed to hammering home to your audience what was going on?

AA: What is so wonderful about world building is you can inspire a sense of wonder. And the audience can fill in the gaps with their own understanding. I think that’s why there was a lot of laughter at the Brooklyn Horror screening, because there was recognition and relatable aspects to the film. 

The way we cut it was very much the way it was written. There was a moment when the first flashback happened that we realized we needed to give the audience a lot of time to register how Dakota’s physical appearance changed; she had a nose ring, her hair is different, her clothing has changed. 

KS: We are really obsessed with flow and how you make visuals flow from one to the other, so transitions are really important to us. We want things to flow together almost like a relay race where the scenes are handing the next part off to each other. Having these clear points of transition also creates this quality where it feels more dreamlike, so you feel like you are inside Dakota’s head. And I think that is a lot nicer than just editing a text saying “3 years earlier”.

TP: I am often surprised by the way that people watch movies now, they seem to need more of those queues. Almost like they do not trust themselves or the visual medium to tell the story. 

KS: It is also about showing the audience how your characters interact and what they do, rather than what they say to each other. 

AA: Anything that is said where you can emphasize it with the visual,  will make it stronger for the audience. It can be easy to miss small details If you do not emphasize the moment enough. That is what directing is to me, if there is something that the majority of people are not getting then we did not do our job. 

KS: Any director should watch Spielberg. The way he moves characters around and has people doing things, it just flows so effortlessly without it feeling like he is trying to “show you something”. Which is why his one-shot takes are so masterful, whereas a lot of other people do it in an attempt to show off. Spielberg is often finding an effortless way to get actors to work together and build chemistry. In Kill Your Lover there is a lot about how the characters relate to each other through the blocking, how we space them physically, and how they open up to each other. 

Tori: I was thinking about your movie and how you could come back to it at different points in your life. You may find something new in the story, you might relate to a different character, or interpret it a different way. I do not know how you make that magic happen! Was that something in the back of your mind while making the film? How do you make your movie repeatedly watchable or relatable to a wide variety of people?

KS: I think you just try to make a good movie, and if a good movie is compelling people will come back to it. 

AA: For me it's about the truth at that moment in time. These were our own personal truths or those we know from other people. The more specific we got the more people seemed to respond to it. So we made things more relatable as opposed to making it generic/general, attempting a catch all. 

TP: That reminds me of Parasite, which is specifically about South Korean culture but has so many universal themes that made it so popular here in the West. 

KS: Yes, which is why it was important to really flesh out the characters. And I knew a lot of people in bands so it made it easy to decide “Oh, Dakota should be in a band!”. We put a lot of work into the wall in her apartment and the collage of photographs because we knew this was an essential visual point to learn about Dakota and who she was as a person. It has to feel real. The wall itself expresses everything. There was an entire day of just shooting the band! Fake albums, posters, and promo shots. 

TP: You had mentioned the next project you are working on is about birth, are there some specific themes you are thinking about or working through?

AA: With Kill Your Lover we felt like covering a devastating relationship movie so now we are coming for pregnancy movies! I really love action sequences, that is why the fight scene at the end gave me so much joy. I love anything visceral and impactful. But the movie is called UMBILICALand one of the main themes for us is this idea that motherhood is the death of self. So I have been interviewing mothers and trying to get some background because it is not an experience I have had myself. But I can empathize with what it must be like to be an expectant mother and anticipate your whole life changing. So I’ve been actively engaging with a wider community with more experience to give me more insight into what  it actually feels like. 

I saw a video of an 8 month pregnant mother lying on her back and you can see the baby moving inside of her. It is amazing but very creepy seeing the hands push up against the inside of her stomach from the outside. 

KS: It is that weird notion when you have this living being inside of you and so what does that mean? And what can they do to your body?

AA: I don’t think motherhood or parenthood ever gets old as a subject matter. Whether or not you become a parent, we all have interesting and developing relationships with our own parents. Reflecting on how we show up in the world as people as a result of that initially very intense bond is very interesting to us.  

TP: Are there any other big themes or subject material you are interested in taking on?

KS: We are definitely very interested in the ways relationships can be pushed and stretched, specifically in the genre of horror. And when I talk about relationships it can cover a lot of things. One the films we’ve written is about best friends, one is about a long term but loving relationship and another is about estranged sisters

AA: We have several scripts already written which is great - and we're so ready for what is next.

Kill Your Lover is available to watch on demand June 7. Watch the trailer and follow the filmmakers company Switchblade Cinema to learn more about the project and see what comes next for the directing duo.